tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1347024209749983628.post9004223531074981497..comments2024-01-27T02:01:24.039-05:00Comments on Happy Hour at the Top Bar: Double-Walled Insulated Horizontal Hives with Extra Deep FramesJulie Dhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09965401314478095790noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1347024209749983628.post-22432716302803254712022-04-01T19:03:50.571-04:002022-04-01T19:03:50.571-04:00Great article! I read "Keeping Bees With A Sm...Great article! I read "Keeping Bees With A Smile" and it seemed to make beekeeping so simple but yet provided tons of practical information as well. I am just finishing my first hive (a Lazutin) and am really interested on how I would join two deep Langstroth frames together (in a way that they could be taken apart for extraction. I have seen several people talk about here and was hoping to find a solution. I wanted to attach the thinner ends together and have the thicker bars opposite each other. And, do you know if the bees will be okay with crossing the 1 inch horizontal beam that will result from attach the two half inch ends together? Thanks again for continuing this natural practice of apiculture and it's encouraging to see so many others choosing to do so as well!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1347024209749983628.post-54390112640892639822018-07-21T07:58:53.119-04:002018-07-21T07:58:53.119-04:00Very very nice blog. I'd started out just maki...Very very nice blog. I'd started out just making a horizontal by looking at tanzanian style hive pics from Africa; it's easier on the back just lifting out the langstroth frames for inspection. Mine is 5' long and holds about 40 lanstroth frames. I use burlap for the top and have a hinged door mechanism to open it. <br /><br />These deep frames are really really appealing however. Even if I have to bracket to langstroths together my next hive build is going to be in this style. <br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03986495180170005143noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1347024209749983628.post-15827089492985887062017-12-12T20:36:58.954-05:002017-12-12T20:36:58.954-05:00Hi Julie,
I have read "Keeping Bees with a Sm...Hi Julie,<br />I have read "Keeping Bees with a Smile" and found Mr. Lazutin's beekeeping philosophy very compelling. I have modified the plans shown in the back of his book to build my horizontal hives. They are designed to use 2 deep Langstroth frames. I connect them with a short piece of metal pipe hanger strap which is thin enough to avoid the bees filling the space between the strap and hive wall with propolis. I have maintained the screened off chamber below the frames and have built a shallow pan that fits inside. I place a layer of diatomaceous earth in the pan so that any pests that drop into it from above are dessicated and can't reinfest the bees.<br />I'm in central Illinois and the insulated hives make it very easy to get the bees through the winter and keep them cooler in summer. This past summer was the second year with my horizontal hives and had three hives that produced upwards of 60 lbs of honey each. I also lost 3 hives due to wax moth infestation. I'm still on the steep part of the learning curve on how to manage the hives and have implemented several ideas to improve on that. I hope to expand to 16 horizontal hives this next summer.<br /> Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1347024209749983628.post-32232355643341548352017-11-08T14:38:48.491-05:002017-11-08T14:38:48.491-05:00Thank you for your correction. These were notes th...Thank you for your correction. These were notes that I took on a presentation prior to reading Lazutin's book, but as I recall from the illustration you are referencing, you are correct. Thank you for pointing that out.Julie Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09965401314478095790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1347024209749983628.post-49848512350708407512017-11-03T10:45:30.444-04:002017-11-03T10:45:30.444-04:00I would like to comment about:
* Ukraine (Note: t...I would like to comment about:<br /><br />* Ukraine (Note: the Ukrainian hive is taller than wide. It holds 36 frames in 2 18-frame rows. <br /><br />This is incorrect. Ukrainian hive is a hive that uses Ukrainian frames (the picture from the book above, in fact, show the Ukrainian frame listed - see the top row the most right frame. While there are designs where two rows of the frames are used (Dadant or Langstroth frames), these are not Ukrainian hives. In addition, Ukrainian hives may have any number of frames - not set to the number 36. Ukranian hive can be vertical as well, not just horizontal; although horizontal hives are traditionally predominant. The main point is - the hive must use the Ukrainian frame in order to be called Ukrainian hive.Greghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02487173951820816026noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1347024209749983628.post-18299445601282256542017-10-16T13:10:15.956-04:002017-10-16T13:10:15.956-04:00Hi, Susi! Welcome to the world of beekeeping! A co...Hi, Susi! Welcome to the world of beekeeping! A couple of years ago, I took many of Lazutin's principles about hive building and made myself a double-walled insulated TBH. Just as you suspected, the insulation works beautifully in both the summer and the winter. Even though I'm in a more northerly latitude, peak summer temps are sometimes in the mid-90's F. On those days, my un-insulated hives all have thick beards, but my insulated ones are not even fazed.<br /><br />Heat (and a lack of support on all sides of the comb) is a reason why TBH combs collapse, but because bees work very hard to keep the interior of the hive a constant temperature, I'm not entirely sure that it's the predominant reason. In other words, it might be over 100 F outside, but the bees keep it much cooler inside for their brood. So I suspect that the culprit is more likely heat in tandem with beekeeper carelessness. For example, the first few years of beekeeping, I used to turn my combs upside down during inspections the way that you often see folks do in vids and photos. However, even if the comb doesn't break, it can develop micro-cracks. Although I can't prove it, I suspect any fallen comb I had was due to these weaknesses in the comb in combination with heat. Since then, I've mostly stopped turning combs upside down, and I've rarely experienced fallen comb in the hive since.<br /><br />I can't speak to why Langstroth hives are used predominantly in Australia, but I have a feeling that it has more to do with production than anything else. Langs, as they are currently built and used (which is not at all what Langstroth recommended, btw), produce more honey per hive than other designs. The drawback is that they are costly in terms of time and money to maintain (at least from my perspective).<br /><br />Regarding the use of a Lazutin hive for you personally, though, I can't say whether I would recommend it or not because I don't really know your local climate or foraging conditions. However, I spoke with Dr. Sharashkin this weekend (Lazutin's editor) about using a Lazutin hive in New England where I am, and he recommended against it. His reasons were that Lazutin's climate was much colder than mine, and he had phenomenal forage during spring to fall. (Here, I have a big spring boom, but then very little from mid-July too October.) He said a Lazutin hive would be too large, and he recommended a Layens hive instead. (BTW, I'm planning to write up my notes on Dr. Sharashkin's talks from this weekend, so if you're interested, stay tuned for this weeks' posts.)<br /><br />With that said, I'd recommend defining your beekeeping goals and also consider the kind of experience you want. You might find that a Lang fits your needs best, but you can still incorporate many of Lazutin's ideas. (Actually, Langstroth himself originally recommended a double-walled hive, so that's not really a new idea). Or you might find that a horizontal hive suits your style best. In that case, there are quite a number of options, but you might have to do some research to pinpoint the one that fits your local conditions best. <br /><br />I realize that I told you nothing except "You're going to have to figure this out," and I apologize if that wasn't really helpful. Wish you lots of luck figuring it out, though!Julie Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09965401314478095790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1347024209749983628.post-38634654366922733592017-10-16T01:13:27.900-04:002017-10-16T01:13:27.900-04:00Hi, I am a 'newbee' to all this and we hav...Hi, I am a 'newbee' to all this and we have started our beekeeping with Langstroth hives. I am very keen to build a horizontal hive and have been checking the web to see what's out there. I love the idea of the Russian long frames but am wondering how they would cope in our quite warm Australian conditions? I am thinking that good insulation works both ways- keeping hives cool as well as warm. I read in one of your posts something about combs collapsing, would that be because of the heat and is that why Langstroth hives is taught in Australia. I really like the thinking behind a double deep langstroth frame. makes so much sense.<br />looking forward to what you think. thanks for a fantastic summary of the book, have ordered it and look forward to getting informed :-)Susihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12933657173355631721noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1347024209749983628.post-36543993971540641532017-02-28T19:02:12.332-05:002017-02-28T19:02:12.332-05:00Hi, Christina. As I recall, David just used flat p...Hi, Christina. As I recall, David just used flat plates to bracket his frames together. The brackets look like flat rectangular pieces of metal with a couple of holes drilled in them. His reason for bracketing frames rather than using large Lazutin frames was that he wanted to put the frame in his extractor.<br /><br />However, David has since given up on those frames and switched to Layens hives. The reasons he gave me were:<br />-- In his area, the flow isn't good enough to fill his Lazutin hive<br />-- The brackets messed with the bee space, and the bees propolized them/built on them so that they couldn't be taken apart. <br />-- David did not want to switch to one-piece Lazutin frames because they wouldn't fit into his extractor, but the Layens frames would<br /><br />Good luck building your hive!Julie Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09965401314478095790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1347024209749983628.post-7825507119155454442017-02-28T15:52:38.221-05:002017-02-28T15:52:38.221-05:00Hi Julie
Great post. Do you have any idea how Dav...Hi Julie<br /><br />Great post. Do you have any idea how David bracketed his frames together? I'm wondering if he has a temporary way of joining them so they can be separated for extraction, or if they are permanently joined?<br /><br />Thanks. I'll be building one next month.<br />ChristinaChristina Faminoffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08277997864658679899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1347024209749983628.post-40913942233511508422017-02-28T15:43:03.668-05:002017-02-28T15:43:03.668-05:00Big Daddy Duke, I'd love to hear how things tu...Big Daddy Duke, I'd love to hear how things turned out with your Lazutin hive. Can you give an update? I'll be building one next month to try out this year, and would love your feedback. <br /><br />Thanks<br />ChristinaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1347024209749983628.post-34409525764132975422017-01-25T06:41:44.466-05:002017-01-25T06:41:44.466-05:00Sounds like a very cool project, Ed! Would love to...Sounds like a very cool project, Ed! Would love to see pictures and plans when you finish!Julie Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09965401314478095790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1347024209749983628.post-2033966601817328392017-01-24T19:21:37.441-05:002017-01-24T19:21:37.441-05:00I want to build a Lazutin hive with a few modifica...I want to build a Lazutin hive with a few modifications based on Corwin Bell's cathedral hive design, specifically the cross section of his top bar (although without the cathedral shape), the inclusion of the bee controlled upper vents and the holes that constitute his "super highway". I think these features could be well applied to the top bars of the extra deep frames (my plan is essentially two Lang deeps bracketed together, although the upper top bar portion would not be interchangeable with the lower portion). If I get this project off the ground, I will try to provide at least rudimentary plans, hopefully with pictures as well. BTW, I am in Salt Lake City, Utah.Ed Blanfordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01949134057294021994noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1347024209749983628.post-6954076018346964842016-04-13T22:27:52.636-04:002016-04-13T22:27:52.636-04:00Glad you enjoyed Lazutin's book. I also found ...Glad you enjoyed Lazutin's book. I also found it to be a revelation, and it's definitely one of my favorite bee books. If you can't find a workshop on Russian hives close to you, perhaps Dr. Sharashkin would be willing to answer a quick email with specific questions. I sent him a question regarding the necessity of foundation in Russian horizontal hives, and he was extremely gracious and generous in responding. Good luck!Julie Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09965401314478095790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1347024209749983628.post-59458853567181880992016-04-12T15:07:21.481-04:002016-04-12T15:07:21.481-04:00Greetings,
I also purchased and now have read Mr. ...Greetings,<br />I also purchased and now have read Mr. Lazutin's book. May he rest in peace and his family be well taken care of. Thanks for your good review of his book, Keeping Bees with a Smile. Its an easy read and encourages novices that yes we can keep bees without having to struggle at timing everything perfectly and making it even more complicated than necessary. I have considered taking Dr. Leo Sharshkin's beekeeping workshop, though it's quite a ways and not that cheap. Look forward to other training closer and for perhaps less. ThanksAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1347024209749983628.post-88008607158477652192016-01-24T13:15:16.888-05:002016-01-24T13:15:16.888-05:00Awesome! You're going to have so much great fo...Awesome! You're going to have so much great forage in S FL like mangoes, avocados, etc. Tropical flowers make super rich tasting honey!<br /><br />The tricky thing about TBHs is that they don't have frames to help support the comb, which limits the depth of the comb. (The longer your bar, the taller your comb can be, but 11" is generally considered pushing it to the maximum. There's a new TBH design called a cathedral hive. It allows for deeper comb, but it also looks more difficult to build. (At least for me.)<br /><br />My dad used to be stationed at Homestead, btw, and I remember it being really hot and humid. You might think about whether you need really deep bars. Deep bars are helpful in the winter when it's harder for the bees to move from one comb to another, but freezing won't be an issue for you. On the other hand, you have wretched summers, and comb collapse could be an issue. Have you looked at Les Crowder's design -- longer bars, shallower comb? Also, have you investigated using top entrances?<br /><br />Julie Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09965401314478095790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1347024209749983628.post-89615659612876629782016-01-23T20:32:20.561-05:002016-01-23T20:32:20.561-05:00Nice article. I'm looking into starting a bee...Nice article. I'm looking into starting a bee hive in my back yard in South Florida. There's a lot to learn but I do know I would like to build a top bar bee hive. I like the idea of a deep top bar bee hive. Ericnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1347024209749983628.post-79760959095656926072015-07-24T15:20:07.483-04:002015-07-24T15:20:07.483-04:00Thanks for your feedback! I completely agree about...Thanks for your feedback! I completely agree about there being too little info on hive management for horizontal hive beeks. And as little info as there is for the first-year beekeeper, it seems there is even less out there for 2nd-year beeks. :-( <br /><br />That's the great thing about the Internet, though. I've been finding more and more people online who are trying out new things like horizontal hives or insulated hives or other things and sharing their experiences... I guess the revolution has to start somewhere, right. ;-)Julie Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09965401314478095790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1347024209749983628.post-33580657427972965232015-07-24T11:15:39.081-04:002015-07-24T11:15:39.081-04:00I applaud you. I frequently surf the web for infor...I applaud you. I frequently surf the web for information about alternative hive designs and insulated hive designs. You did a great job of summarizing the Lazutin book and I'm glad to see that people are starting to digest that info and offering practical feedbacl. The website "horizontalhive" makes a great effort to promote the book but not so much about how to manage this type of hive. I have built a Lazutin style hive and would like to transition away from my Langstroth style of hive starting next spring. I thing that the 'beginnig beekeeper classes' that are frequently offered only teach people to approach beekeeping as if they were commercial producers but on a small scale. Langstroth hives make it easy for the person but are not great for the colony - every time the hive is opened it's like a bear tearing open a tent. Please continue to share your experiences as your readers benifit from your insights and writing style to help them manage and understand top bar hive maagement. Big Daddy Dukehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05042554602930160424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1347024209749983628.post-11363367510193763732015-05-10T21:15:56.047-04:002015-05-10T21:15:56.047-04:00Hi Julie-
Thanks so much for the response.
I'...Hi Julie-<br />Thanks so much for the response.<br /><br />I'll definitely be building one! Actually I'll probably build 3 or 4 to start (economy of scale, at least time-wise...). Unless I really get moving and get them done in the next couple weeks AND the swarm traps I've got up get some results they'll probably wait until next year to get populated. I wonder if maybe Lazutin found that with the extra deep frames maybe the bees just didn't build much comb off the bottoms....? Have to experiment and find out!<br /><br />Over the past year as I realized I was going to have to take a much more active part in the beekeeping I've been more studiously educating myself about the practice of beekeeping, but it wasn't until the Lazutin book that it all really 'made sense' to me (or at least the philosophy and methodology made sense to my world view!). <br /><br />I'm going to try and resist my habit of project tunnel-vision and actually document constructing my version of the Lazutin hive and will most certainly share!<br />TomAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1347024209749983628.post-20143315330075183132015-05-10T18:45:10.436-04:002015-05-10T18:45:10.436-04:00Hi, Tom! Thanks so much for your kind feedback! I ...Hi, Tom! Thanks so much for your kind feedback! I really appreciate it. <br /><br />So glad to hear that you like Lazutin's book. I also felt that he was very bee-centric, but also very practical, in his approach.<br /><br />Regarding the screened off chamber under the frames, I really apologize because I don't recall the reason why he stopped making the screened-off chamber under the frames. I don't entirely trust my memory, but if I recall correctly, he was still including a couple of inches beneath the frames. However, he simply wasn't including a screen. If you look at the photo of David's hive, you'll see the same thing (though he still hadn't added the bottom to his hive.)<br /><br />It's such a tragedy that Lazutin passed away, but he certainly has a wonderful person carrying on his work in Dr. Sharashkin. I've contacted him with my own personal questions about Lazutin's hive, and Dr. Sharashkin has been very gracious and generous in his responses. If you need more info, I would definitely contact him. His address is available through his website horizontalhives.com.<br /><br />If you build one of his hives, I'd love to see it and hear how it works out!Julie Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09965401314478095790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1347024209749983628.post-58662873561349733462015-05-10T16:39:25.243-04:002015-05-10T16:39:25.243-04:00Great blog! I stumbled upon it searching for some...Great blog! I stumbled upon it searching for some info on extractors (or how to construct one…) that would work with extra-deep frames. I just finished the Lazutin book and your write-up of it is great. I find his approach really compelling. My dad started keeping bees at my ‘homestead’ several years ago (I’m out in the country, he’s in suburbia)- other than “lending a hand,” thus-far its been pretty much his project (I’ve had plenty else on my list), but as he lives some distance away and is getting older I’ve known I’ll have to take it over eventually. As a former engineer, he’s comfortable with, let’s say ‘human-centric’ approaches and (sometimes overly) complex ‘solutions’ to problems- Langstroth hives, medications, sugar feeding, etc., etc. I’m more oriented toward permaculture notions, letting natural processes do most of the work, etc. It was the feeling that ‘there has to be a simpler, more natural way!’ led me to the Lazutin book (and its obvious attraction). Anyway, as I take over the beekeeping I’m shifting it all to the more natural approach and have been working out a version of the Lazutin hive design, and I noticed in your write-up under ’tweaking’ you mentioned:<br /><br />Since writing his book, Lazutin has stopped making a raised screened-off chamber under the frames.<br /><br />Can you elaborate/explain? Do you mean he just wasn’t putting in a screened panel to keep the bees from building comb off the bottom of the frames? Or he wasn’t leaving the space at all? My understanding was this was the space where he was putting an absorbent material in the winter.<br /><br />Again, great blog!<br />Tom<br /><br />Sure with I'd been able to see Lazutin talk.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1347024209749983628.post-84784529974520358062015-05-01T21:22:55.123-04:002015-05-01T21:22:55.123-04:00I agree, it's a great, informative post on the...I agree, it's a great, informative post on the horizontal hives. When I saw it, I also thought about the AZ hives which I was enthralled with when I was in Slovenia last fall. The nice thing about the bee houses is that it gives them some protection from the elements and you can work your hives in any weather since you are inside! But like theprospectofbees, I found that plans or hives are very hard to find. Here's a thread at beesource with some links: http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?255870-IMPOSSIBLE-TO-FIND-AZ-Hive-Plans.Donhttp://www.buddhaandthebees.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1347024209749983628.post-7617620779940247712015-04-21T18:12:26.770-04:002015-04-21T18:12:26.770-04:00Thanks for sharing that link. I've seen those ...Thanks for sharing that link. I've seen those Slovenian hives, but I wasn't quite sure how they worked. I hope you find plans because I'd love to see them in action!<br /><br />I'm not super keen on the idea of frames either, but I like the idea of a hive that has a fixed volume. That way, at least the hive is self-contained and one doesn't have to come up with storage for boxes, etc. Julie Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09965401314478095790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1347024209749983628.post-86528783659450127802015-04-21T14:49:14.625-04:002015-04-21T14:49:14.625-04:00Great post. We have been trying Tanzanian top-bar ...Great post. We have been trying Tanzanian top-bar hives largely to keep heavy lifting from being a regular part of the experience. Our overwintering rate has not been good in spite of thicker walls and a long version of the Warre quilt box.<br /><br />Dr. Milbrath recently mentioned Lazatin's book to us and we have been interested in trying such a hive. We had already been thinking about insulated sides and the extra depth does seem useful when our bitterly cold winters prevent the bees from moving to an adjacent comb. Sadly we do not have anything like his native bees so varroa will be an issue and the surrounding forage is probably not as good. Nor are we fond of making frames but there is no choice with a hive that deep.<br /><br />Since then our fickle selves have heard of AZ hives used in Slovenia http://www.keepingbackyardbees.com/the-slovenian-beehive-arrives-in-the-us/<br />Detailed information and plans very hard to come by. They are a vertical hive but fixed in height and worked from the back. It seems like keeping bees in a kitchen cabinet. Perhaps we shall try something like those. Forced towards frames again.<br /><br />Anything but Langstroth! Or Warre. Or anything requiring lifting more than a frame.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com